Something Monstrous In The Senate This Way Comes

[TxMusky]

As for the claim that fracking fluid never gets into the ground water---horse ****. There are spills--and even cases here of dumping spent fluid down abandoned oil wells and into creeks.

Spills and dumping into creeks is not a "normal" practice and the operator should be held responsible for the cleanup. You dont just "dump" fluids down an abandoned well, those are supposed to be cemented up or at least our regulations are enforced that way. There are licensed and monitored "injection wells" that are used to put the produced water that comes out with the oil right back into the ground, but those are injected into the same formation the oil came from. If the oil wasnt in the water zone to begin with, and fresh water(water well) is not going to be coming out of an oil zone, that water is salt water.

If you are having a problem with companies not complying with your rules and regulations, maybe you should elect people to the job that can do the job. Or maybe your state or area needs to look into what is working in other places and structure their laws accordingly. There is no excuse for "accidentally" having a recurring spill, but to require a "tracer" to be added to the fluid is almost ignorant. Do you realize how many barrels of fluid, which is just about all fresh water and some sand it takes to do a job? You would have to add a large amount of chemical to even start to be able to track it and secondly, wouldnt that just be adding to your problem? If they do finally decide to show the chemical makeup of frac water, there are going to be many red faced protesters mulling about, it is not near what the "chicken littles" are making it out to be.

In short you need water to take the sand down to plug into and hold the cracks open that the pumping pressure creates in the formation. The water has a gel mud mixed with it to hold the sand in the water in order to insure that the sand just doesnt fall out and not go back into the formation. As the well is opened up, all of the fluid and some sand that was injected into well comes right back out the top. When the water that was used for the "frac" comes back out it brings oil with it as it comes. When the "frac water" is collected in tanks, they know how much they put in and they know how much they get out. Its not a big "F'n" deal, as the VP Biden says, its a normal process and contrary to some belief the frac crews are not dying in droves from the chemical imbalance in their systems. The cracks from the Fracing, do not go for miles into the surrounding countryside, in fact they might only extend a hundred feet from the center of the well at the most. The other cracks that are allowing the oil and gas to travel underground for centuries have always been there, the frac just opens them up a little to allow freer travel for the oil through the solid rock.

I'll go back to the Waffle house now, at least the sky is not falling there.

[wacojoe]

Whew! Here's hoping the NYT has its finger on the pulse of the Senate.

Energy Bill a No-Go in the Senate
By DAVID M. HERSZEHORN

Senate Democrats on Tuesday abandoned all hopes of passing even a slimmed-down energy bill before they adjourn for the summer recess, saying that they did not have sufficient votes even for legislation tailored narrowly to respond to the Gulf oil spill.

Although the majority leader, Harry Reid, Democrat of Nevada, sought to blame Republicans for sinking the energy measure, the reality is that Democrats are also divided over how to proceed on the issue and had long ago given up hope of a comprehensive bill to address climate change...
http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2...in-the-senate/

[FredK]

Spills and dumping into creeks is not a "normal" practice and the operator should be held responsible for the cleanup. You dont just "dump" fluids down an abandoned well, those are supposed to be cemented up or at least our regulations are enforced that way. There are licensed and monitored "injection wells" that are used to put the produced water that comes out with the oil right back into the ground, but those are injected into the same formation the oil came from. If the oil wasnt in the water zone to begin with, and fresh water(water well) is not going to be coming out of an oil zone, that water is salt water.

If you are having a problem with companies not complying with your rules and regulations, maybe you should elect people to the job that can do the job. Or maybe your state or area needs to look into what is working in other places and structure their laws accordingly. There is no excuse for "accidentally" having a recurring spill, but to require a "tracer" to be added to the fluid is almost ignorant. Do you realize how many barrels of fluid, which is just about all fresh water and some sand it takes to do a job? You would have to add a large amount of chemical to even start to be able to track it and secondly, wouldnt that just be adding to your problem? If they do finally decide to show the chemical makeup of frac water, there are going to be many red faced protesters mulling about, it is not near what the "chicken littles" are making it out to be.

In short you need water to take the sand down to plug into and hold the cracks open that the pumping pressure creates in the formation. The water has a gel mud mixed with it to hold the sand in the water in order to insure that the sand just doesnt fall out and not go back into the formation. As the well is opened up, all of the fluid and some sand that was injected into well comes right back out the top. When the water that was used for the "frac" comes back out it brings oil with it as it comes. When the "frac water" is collected in tanks, they know how much they put in and they know how much they get out. Its not a big "F'n" deal, as the VP Biden says, its a normal process and contrary to some belief the frac crews are not dying in droves from the chemical imbalance in their systems. The cracks from the Fracing, do not go for miles into the surrounding countryside, in fact they might only extend a hundred feet from the center of the well at the most. The other cracks that are allowing the oil and gas to travel underground for centuries have always been there, the frac just opens them up a little to allow freer travel for the oil through the solid rock.

I'll go back to the Waffle house now, at least the sky is not falling there.

I think your street creds are going down hill and it would be better sitting on a stool at the Waffle House if you really believe what you stated.

[Dave Grubb]

I'm with you Joe---grid lock isn't a bad thing

-----ah---Tx---why don't you try selling that trash to the boys down at the Waffle House---maybe they'll buy it

[Billy_Rightwing]

We are in the poor house now, do we want Obama to regulate us into complete depression? Wall-Mart wants to expand here and Obama's fruit loops are worried about some butter files in the area, we can't go anywhere with this bull roar®.

[TxMusky]

-----ah---Tx---why don't you try selling that trash to the boys down at the Waffle House---maybe they'll buy it

Just going by a little note you said yourself, you are sitting on an oil well.......so is there anything wrong with you, other than brain damage? Or maybe an arm or leg has fallen off, either way, I think your fears are unfounded as of now.

In fact a couple of weeks ago I was playing with about 500 gallons of the flowed back frac water from your neck of the woods, the main problem the lab found was the chlorides levels, about 210,000 ppm. Anything that spilled on the shop floor was a miniature salt lake when it dried. We were doing some tests to see if there was a way we could reclaim the bulk of the water and reuse it on the next frac job, instead of having to put in into an injection well, saving both time and money not to mention taking a fear away that the chicken littles are spreading.

How much hands on experience do you have dealing with or is the bulk of your knowledge taken from articles you find on the net?

[Dave Grubb]

With all this vast experience you claim--tell me why chemical markers won't work.

[FredK]

With all this vast experience you claim--tell me why chemical markers won't work.

Heck Dave, just ask him for all the stuff they use to frack with.

[FredK]

Meanwhile: http://marcelluseffect.blogspot.com/...fix-water.html

Remember the little town of Dimock in Susquehanna County, Pennsylvania? The place where, on January 1, 2009 residents lost their drinking water because of an explosion due to drilling? It's been 19 months and they still don't have their water - but they are getting closer. Today, he PA Department of Environmental Protection (DEP) gave Cabot Oil & Gas Corp. an extension - they have 60 days to permanently fix the water supplies that were affected by the company’s natural gas drilling operations in Dimock.

[Dave Grubb]

No problems here--no sir--just chicken littles

The state's investigation into the polluted water began after a Dimock resident's well exploded on New Year's Day 2009, shattering a cement slab covering one of the wells. No one was hurt in the explosion.

State inspectors found flaws in the construction of the four gas wells, making it possible for combustible gas to escape into groundwater, Tarbell said.

Residents also have complained that the water that came out of their faucets suddenly became cloudy and discolored, smelling and tasing foul shortly after Cabot began drilling.

Last September, the DEP temporarily banned Cabot from using the drilling technique hydraulic fracturing, or "fracking," following three chemical spills at a single well site in Dimock, which polluted a wetland and killed fish.

[FredK]

I guess they didn't light the water to see if it burned.

Or the some other reports show there isn't any water treatment equipment to take out the frack used since it passes through Reverse Osmosis filters with ease.

Hope Tx gets back from the job at the Waffle House to do some explaining.

[TxMusky]

You clowns are funny. Sounds like another case of a company decided to take a shortcut. Either the casing parted or they got a bad cement job.

uh, on a more serious note, natural gas burns. It doesnt need any additional chemicals or additives other than a spark to ignite. You two are mixing too completely different scenarios, the gas that was seeping into the ground vs the chemical additives that are "added" to frac water. Natural gas, radon gas and several other compounds can seep through underground formations due to a number of natural occurrences, one being a small shifting due to a small earthquake and the pressure exerted by the gas forces it to go to a different place.

You two would make yourselves look so much more intelligent by understanding how things happen instead of playing the nanny nanny boo boo childs game. Actually if your regulating department took the time to actually look at the well logs and do some inspecting, they might find out that the regs are not being followed. The well logs which are run on every well I have ever seen, will tell them what is actually installed in the well. Maybe you should pay closer attention to who is running your state and if they cannot do the job, they should be fired.

Oh I forgot, you are Obama fans, so you wouldnt know an intelligent person if you tripped over him.

[TxMusky]

Or the some other reports show there isn't any water treatment equipment to take out the frack used since it passes through Reverse Osmosis filters with ease.

Fred, there is no "frack". It is a process not a chemical. Frac is short for "fracturing" of the formation by 3 to 5 thousand pounds of pressure by pumping water and sand down the well. The sand is the same stuff that is used for packing sand screens in water wells. So with that little tidbit of knowledge, even you should be able to figure out how false or silly your reverse Osmosis statement was. You have no clue, yet want to poke fun at me for trying to give you just a little bit of understanding.

Back to the waffle house, the coffee is hot and the people seem smarter.

[DanH]

I have to ask .... WHERE do these eco-freaks demanding electric cars and such think the electricity is going to come from? ... collecting lightning strikes ? These same azzzholes block every form of new electric generation plants.

[chew 'n' spit]

I have to ask .... WHERE do these eco-freaks demanding electric cars and such think the electricity is going to come from? ... collecting lightning strikes ? These same azzzholes block every form of new electric generation plants.

Ah SBA go fly a kite next time a big thunder boomer comes over, worked for Ben, not Truckman, the Franklin one.