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Thread: Bloodshed in Mexico not as bad as in 1990s

  1. #1
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    Bloodshed in Mexico not as bad as in 1990s

    MEXICO CITY - Gruesome murders appear to be commonplace in Mexico. The severed heads of eight men found in pairs along highways in Durango. Seventeen people massacred at a birthday party in Torreon. The bodies of 55 people found dumped in a mine near the town of Taxco.

    Mexicans and their American neighbors are being bombarded by news of shootouts, bombings, kidnappings and murders as drug smugglers battle each other and the government for control of the narcotics trade.


    But a closer look at the latest crime statistics indicates that much of Mexico has modest murder rates. The horrific violence that is jacking up the country's national death toll is occurring largely in nine of Mexico's 31 states.

    And despite a wave of killings in those states, the national murder rate in 2009 was still lower than it was a decade before, long before the Mexican government began its crackdown on the cartels.

    "If you look at history, today we have fewer murders, both in raw numbers and rates," said Mario Arroyo, a researcher with the Citizens' Institute for Crime Studies, a Mexico City think tank.

    Experts caution that murder statistics give only a narrow view of crime.

    Mexico's 2009 murder rate of 14 per 100,000 people was still more than twice as high as the U.S. rate of 5.4 in 2008, the latest year for which full U.S. statistics are available.

    The numbers also do not reflect the increasingly macabre nature of Mexico's drug killings as the cartels try to intimidate Mexicans. Bodies are dismembered or hung from bridges. Mass shootings have become common as hit men hunt down their rivals at parties or drug-rehabilitation centers.

    "There's a disconnect between the statistics and the perception of the public," said Elias Kuri, president of Light Up Mexico, an anti-crime association.

    Mexico's Public Safety Secretariat released the 2009 murder totals in July in response to a request by the Citizens' Institute for Crime Studies. The institute used population data from the government's National Population Council to calculate murder rates for each state.

    How many of the murders are due to the drug war has been a matter of fierce debate. On Tuesday, the head of Mexico's intelligence agency said that, from late 2006, when President Felipe Calderón launched a war on drugs, through this year, there have been 28,000 drug-related deaths. La Reforma newspaper, which keeps a running tally of drug deaths, counts 20,842 since the drug war began, with 6,587 taking place in 2009. Whether a murder was drug-related is often hard to determine because few murders in Mexico are ever solved, Arroyo said.

    The government's murder statistics from 2009 show:

    • The most deadly state in Mexico was Chihuahua, the sparsely populated Texas and New Mexico border region where Juárez is located. It was followed by the marijuana- and heroin-producing states of Durango, Guerrero and Sinaloa.

    • Sonora, the state bordering Arizona, saw its murder rate triple from 2002 to 2009, from seven to 20 per 100,000. But that's still lower than in the late 1990s, when the rate was about 24.

    • Six Mexican states had a lower murder rate than Arizona's rate of 6.3 per 100,000 people in 2008. They include popular tourist destinations like Quintana Roo state, where Cancun is located, and Baja California Sur, where Cabo San Lucas is located.

    • The state with the lowest murder rate is Yucatan, the Gulf of Mexico state known for its Mayan ruins. Its murder rate of two per 100,000 was comparable to the rate for Wyoming and Montana.

    • The rate in Washington, D.C., was nearly quadruple that of the Mexican capital, Mexico City. Washington's murder rate was 31.4 per 100,000 people in 2008; Mexico City's rate in 2009 was eight.

    Read more: http://www.azcentral.com/news/articl...#ixzz0vkz1dZUM
    Damn another "fact" not right.
    Fred

    "Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've
    stayed alive."

    'Take care of yourself, and each other.'

  2. #2
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    what "fact" is that?
    Guns don't kill people. Zombies kill people.

  3. #3
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    I'd go back to Mexico in a heartbeat. The bad PR will devastate Mexico's tourism.

  4. #4
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    Well it seems that the Mexican government can lie about anything they want and old Fred takes it as the gospel truth. besides that, the Mexican murder rate if it was going down has no choice....all the citizens are now over here in the USA.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxMusky View Post
    Well it seems that the Mexican government can lie about anything they want and old Fred takes it as the gospel truth. besides that, the Mexican murder rate if it was going down has no choice....all the citizens are now over here in the USA.
    Hey Tx the Waffle House called and said your spot is open so you throw out some more BS.

    I just take everything as gospel until someone come up with some other stats. You got some or just slinging BS, again?????
    Fred

    "Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've
    stayed alive."

    'Take care of yourself, and each other.'

  6. #6
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    Hey Fred the Looney Bin called and said your room was clean, they need you to vacate the cafeteria so the staff can clean the drool off of your Obozo picture and the floor.

    Mexico: Cartels Move Beyond Drugs, Seek Domination

    By THE ASSOCIATED PRESS

    Published: August 4, 2010

    iled at 10:49 p.m. ET MEXICO CITY (AP) -- President Felipe Calderon said Wednesday that Mexico's cartels in many cases have moved beyond drugs as their main money-earner and are even trying to supplant the government in parts of the country.
    Speaking at an anti-crime conference, Calderon said gangs are imposing fees like taxes in towns they dominate, extorting money from both legitimate and unauthorized businesses.
    ''This has become an activity that defies the government, and even seeks to replace the government,'' he said. ''They are trying to impose a monopoly by force of arms, and are even trying to impose their own laws.''
    Calderon said cartels may even be taking money from churches. ''I do not doubt that they are also extorting money from priests and pastors in this country,'' he said.
    Drugs are becoming less of a focus for the gangs, he said.
    ''Their main business is not anymore even drug trafficking, sometimes,'' Calderon said. ''Their business is dominating other people.''
    Calderon told the gathering that some people are urging him to leave the cartels alone, after more than 28,000 people have died in drug violence since he launched an offensive against the cartels upon taking office in late 2006.
    ''Really, they are telling me, 'Mr. President, don't bother the criminals','' he said.
    Calderon called that ''simply an unacceptable option.''
    Meanwhile, in the port of Manzanillo, capital of the western state of Colima, federal authorities said they seized 200 tons of precursor chemicals for making synthetic drugs. A statement said the material was found in 18 containers shipped from China and Korea.
    The Attorney General's Office said it was the biggest seizure of such chemicals in Mexico.

    http://www.nytimes.com/aponline/2010..._r=1&ref=world
    And another....
    (CBS) Luis Aril Anzures is 29, and a successful restaurateur in El Paso, Texas.

    But 11 months ago he lived across the border in Juarez, Mexico - one of the most dangerous cities on earth, reports CBS News correspondent Bill Whitaker. One day driving home, three cars surrounded him.

    "People came out of the cars with AK-47s, pointing at me, told me to get out of the car, made me kneel on the street," Anzures said. "I thought I was going to die."

    At just that moment soldiers drove up and saved him. That night, Luis and his family fled to El Paso, one of the safest cities in the U.S. - just 13 murders last year. They now have a thriving new restaurant and a safe new life.

    "We love it here," Anzures said.

    He's part of a growing number of people fleeing north to safety across the Rio Grande.

    The port is one of the busiest on the border, 23 million crossings back and forth a year. But in the last two years, as many as 80,000 people from Juarez have crossed into El Paso -- and not gone back. Now one of every 15 El Paso residents is believed to be a recent transplant from Juarez; the upper middle class with visas, green cards or dual citizenships.

    And this is what they're fleeing: Americans Leslie Enriquez and Arthur Redelfs, killed in a Juarez drive-by shooting 11 days ago, are two of 600 drug gang killings so far this year - almost 2,600 last year. Gangsters are killing to control this lucrative drug smuggling route to the United States.

    Reportedly even the mayor of Juarez keeps a residence in Texas. He declined to discuss it for safety reasons.

    "Are we talking about a failed city?" asked University of Texas, El Paso professor Tony Payan. "Absolutely!"
    http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2010/...n6326970.shtml
    And another.....

    "It is a fundamental debate," the president said, belying his traditional reluctance to accept any questioning of the military-focused offensive against the country's drug cartels that he launched in late 2006. "You have to analyse carefully the pros and cons and key arguments on both sides." The president said he personally opposes the idea of legalisation.
    Calderón's new openness comes amid tremendous pressure to justify a strategy that has been accompanied by the spiralling of horrific violence around the country as the cartels fight each other and the government crack down. Official figures released this week put the number of drug war related murders at 28,000.
    Until recently the government regularly played down the general impact of the violence by claiming that 90% of the victims were associated with the cartels, with the remainder largely from the security forces. In recent months it has started to acknowledge a growing number of "civilian victims" ranging from toddlers caught in the cross fire to students massacred at parties..........................

    The new death toll, which was not broken down, is significantly higher than the informal counts kept by newspapers. Milenio newspaper put the number of drug-related deaths in July at 1,234.
    Some leading critics of Calderón's strategy, however, do not believe legalisation is the key to reining in the cartels and the violence, preferring to emphasize the need to increase efforts to go after money laundering and political corruption.
    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2010...ebate-drug-war
    And another......
    ar Zone Nuevo Laredo

    August 5, 2010: The government accused the drug cartels of seeking to become a law unto themselves. Officials believe that the cartels are no longer just dealing in of drugs, but are trying to dominate everyone else. To the government, the cartels appear intent on replacing the Mexican government by “outgunning” Mexican security forces. August 3, 2010: A bridge connecting Ciudad Juarez to El Paso, Texas was closed for two hours after security personnel discovered a bomb on the Mexican side of the structure. The bomb was detonated by authorities.
    July 31, 2010: The US intends to complete deployment of an additional 1200 National Guard troops to the US-Mexico border by mid-August. Five hundred troops will deploy in Arizona. The rest will deploy in California, Texas, and New Mexico. The US government promised to send the additional forces in May. The Guardsmen will support police officers and Border Patrol agents.
    July 30, 2010: The government said a new drug cartel may be active in Guerrero state. Several murders in Guerrero have been attributed to an organization which calls itself The New Cartel of the Sierra (ie, the mountains). Some security officials acknowledge it could be a false claim, but the Beltran Leyva cartel has split into several factions since its senior commander, Arturo Beltran Leyva, was killed by naval commandos in 2009.
    July 29, 2010: Soldiers reportedly killed a senior leader in the Sinaloa cartel, Ignacio Coronel. He was reportedly slain in a raid in the city of Guadalajara, (western Mexico). Coronel was nicknamed The King of Crystal (crystal methamphetamine).
    July 27, 2010: Security officials in Puebla state (central Mexico) reported three federal policemen were murdered by gunmen when they tried to stop a vehicle in order to search it.
    July 25, 2010: Government officials in Nuevo Leon state (northern Mexico) reported police had found 51 bodies buried in nine mass graves. Authorities are trying to identify the victims. Several of the bodies had been burned.
    July 20, 2010: Grenades forever. Mexican and US analysts report that Mexico suffered over 70 grenade attacks during 2009. Interestingly enough, grenades are also the thugs' weapon of choice in the central African countru of Burundi, where thugs hurl the hand grenades at crowds. In Mexico police stations and convoys are favorite targets.
    July 19, 2010: Results from Mexico's recent state government elections surprised a lot of people, especially Institutional Revolutionary Party (PRI) leaders who thought their party was on track to retake control of Mexico. Fourteen of Mexico’s 31 states voted. The PRI won 12 governorships but it was supposed to win 14. The PRI lost three states it had governed for the last 81 years (Oaxaca, Puebla, and Sinaloa). The PRI is considered to be the most corrupt of Mexico's three largest parties.
    July 18, 2010: Gunman in the town Torreon (Coahuila state) attacked a birthday party and murdered 17 people.
    It is believed that the Ejercito Popular Revolucionario (EPR, Popular Revolutionary Army) is getting money from Venezuelan dictator Hugo Chavez. This looks like the recycling of an old story, but that does not mean it isn't worth considering. Colombia accuses Chavez of supporting Marxist narco-guerrilla organizations like the FARC.
    July 16, 2010: A wild day in Nuevo Laredo (Tamaluipas state, across the border from Laredo, Texas). Twelve people died in three gun battles between soldiers and cartel gunmen. Nine of the dead were identified as cartel members, while one soldier was killed. The other two dead were civilians (presumably caught in the crossfire), and another 21 were wounded. This is worse than Chicago under 1920s gang lord Capone. Call it War Zone Nuevo Laredo.
    July 15, 2010: A recent car bomb attack in Ciudad Juarez (Chihuahua state, across the border from El Paso) was detonated by a signal from a mobile phone. This car bomb was believed to be the work of drug cartels. It was very similar to car bomb attacks in Pakistan, Afghanistan, and Iraq. Four people were killed in the car bomb attack. The car contained ten kilos (22 pounds) of C-4 plastic explosive.
    July 4, 2010: In 2009 Nogales (Sonora state, across the border from Nogales, Arizona) had 135 murders. According to statistics from Mexican media, from January through early July 2010, it had 131. Most are drug gang related killings. Cartels are fighting over control of a drug corridor (shipment route from Mexico to the US) running through the area.
    http://www.strategypage.com/qnd/mexi.../20100805.aspx
    Here is a link to many different sources worldwide that takes news from the Mexico rampage, that might prove to have some "facts" and "STATS" that may refute your boast.

    http://warnewsupdates.blogspot.com/2...eeking-to.html

    I'll save you a seat at the WH..

  7. #7
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    :crickets: Just popped in and there are crickets everywhere.....Fred you should have plenty of these to use for bait, for your trolling boat.

  8. #8
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    My opinion ( I have not read the articles so could be way off) ... if it counts for anything. Is that since the 90's the violence has moved from the central jungles to the border towns.. making it more exposed to american people and press.

  9. #9
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    You could be correct Bo, the Cartels are getting bolder as they gain power. Just look at the hit they brazenly put out on Arpaio, an American LEO just this week.

    Then to post some cockamamme story about how the Mexican news is reporting less murders, hell they are probably afraid to print anything that might be offensive to the Cartels. Pretty smart if you ask me, but to have a troll post to try and rub a nose or two in it is just plain silly. Facts were asked for so I provided some, they should be just as good as the next guys....the reading material at the Waffle House has really been upgraded.

    Damn, now they have to revise the total again, maybe it should be updated hourly instead of daily or weekly.

    Mexico City, Mexico (CNN) -- At least 14 inmates died Friday in a prison riot in northeastern Mexico, the state news agency reported.
    The riot broke out around 5 a.m. (6 a.m. ET) in a prison in Ciudad Victoria, the capital of the border state of Tamaulipas, the Notimex news agency said.
    The fight broke out among competing inmate groups who want to assert their control over each other inside the prison, Notimex said. They attacked each other with knives and also beat one another, the news outlet said.
    http://www.cnn.com/2010/WORLD/americ...ex.html?hpt=T2

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by TxMusky View Post
    .......Then to post some cockamamme story about how the Mexican news is reporting less murders, hell they are probably afraid to print anything that might be offensive to the Cartels. Pretty smart if you ask me, but to have a troll post to try and rub a nose or two in it is just plain silly. Facts were asked for so I provided some, they should be just as good as the next guys....the reading material at the Waffle House has really been upgraded.......
    Well Tx show anywhere the points you made reflect anything in the article or posts I made. Your Waffle House reading material while is better but hasn't reach the 5th grade level. Just trash talking about some something off the subject does make it the same.
    Fred

    "Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've
    stayed alive."

    'Take care of yourself, and each other.'

  11. #11
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    Just admit it Fred, you called me out and I stuffed it down your throat. Facts is Facts.

  12. #12
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    My Mom can kick your Mom's ass......

  13. #13
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    I have a lovely bunch of coconuts.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phillbo View Post
    My Mom can kick your Mom's ass......
    Only because she wears army boots!
    This is your mind on drugs!

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