They can be replicated easily enough...
They can be replicated easily enough...
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“You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution
I have no need to
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
I suppose I could take one for the team if. Well, I could have unless my lovely designated driver hadn't resigned that job several years back.
So are you trying this one hole thing off of sandbags or are you cheating with a vise? And with what gun do you expect to achieve this feat?
I'm starting to shoot a bit more. I have a friend nearby with a nice bench and range (out to 800) and he stays home all day to care for his son. We both need something to do.
My most likely candidate for the one hole would be a bull barrel 700 in .222. However, I finally shot a Charles Daly (mauser action, no clue who makes it) 25-06 that I picked up several years ago in an impulse buy. The barrel is some slightly oddball contour that is in no mans land in terms of scope base height. I stuck an old leupold on it and shimmed it with a piece of rubber and ran some handloads for my wifes rifle down it. Damn near one holed them! I need to look at this a little closer.
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
I remember selling a number of Charles Daly firearms over the years...Quality was sometimes hit and miss, but I've taken in a number of really nice shotguns in trade over the years that were extremely high quality...Other imports they sold were rather iffy...The name carries on today after nearly 150 years in business......Ben
The future is forged on the anvil of history...The interpreter of history wields the hammer... - Unknown author...
First---the Charles Daily. Ben is right on---they seem to run the gambit of excellent to not so good. They have been unable to control their quality over time. Many of the not so good came from Turkey. Here is a good start to their history.
Now, to the all in one story: I am shooting off "bags". I have an adjustable height stand (with a small bag on it) in front and a simple sand bag in the rear.
There is no special gun---I do this mostly while working up loads. My two most accurate hunting rifles are my Rem 700 in 7 mm Mag and a Sako Finnbear in .308. The Sako is "out of the Box" the Remington has undergone "tuning" by me over the years--I bought that new in 1971. I left the Sako factory stock because I don't think I can improve on it Number three in that parade is a Winchester pre-64, highly customized .243 Win.
In the pictures below, the .243 is in the top left, the 7 mm on the right above the Ruger No 1. The Sako didn't make it into the pictures. The 7 mm has a 2 3/4 to 10 Weatherby scope on it.
The "goal" is as much about loads as it is the rifle. I see every rifle as a challenge to figure out and find the best load.
As a side note, the Ruger 1 is a bull barrel in 22-250 with a 20X Unertle scope. It is a grand disappointment. It is like a beautiful woman who can't cook
Back to Charles Daily for a second: The early Charles Dailys were made by a number of different manufactures in Suhl Germany. Suhl was a center of gun production at the time (to become part of East Germany). The shotgun below the .243 is a JP Sauer SS, 12 Ga with Krupp steel barrels, pre-war made in Suhl. It is remarkable The engraving is so fine that without a magnifying glass you cannot fully appreciate the art. Sauer did produce guns for Daily. Sauer is now located in Essen.
You might also find the O/U below the Ruger No 1 of interest. That is a Winchester Grand European in 12 ga and .308. I did take that for a walk on a pig hunt once--and we took excellent care of a big old bore
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
To further carry this thread into the gun stratosphere —
I ran across this article on a Ruger lower cost entry into the long range rifle category:
https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...on-rifle-96671
I have lost personal interest in the rifle business from my youth when my father was into it a bit, but still appreciate the technology. I found the posts above bout the goal of “one hole” patterns especially interesting. The article above talks about a standard of a ~1 inch pattern, which is far more than “one hole” obviously. What goes here? Maybe some comments from you shooters will clear it up.
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“You can vote your way into socialism, but you have to shoot your way out.” — Too fundamental to have an attribution
Acceptable accuracy in most rifles is considered "1 minute of angle" which for practical purposes is 1" at 100 yards. I guess you are sorta considered lucky if you get an over the counter rifle that is sub moa. Others will go to great lengths to achieve better accuracy, and custom rifles are always all the rage. Many folks will get rid of a gun if it wont shoot moa, but without loading your own ammo you really aren't being realistic. I am one of those guys who has ruined a gun trying to get it to shoot better.
I don't understand why some guns shoot and others don't. I won't touch a screw on any of my shooters. I am even reluctant to clean them. Voodoo.
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Is that a tusk?
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
The one MOA is defined in the link---and that is a standard measure of accuracy often used in the shooting world. To add a bit more clarity to that term, one minute is 1/60th of a degree.
I have shot one MOA 5 shot groups many times, but in every case there is more than one hole on the paper. In theory, using 0.308 bullets you could have three side by side in three separate holes and still have one MOA.
The practical difference is insignificant---but I am anal and so in my case it is significant.
I will add that a 5 shot group is far more of a challenge than a three shot group. The barrel of the rifle undergoes slight changes as it fires more rounds--often opening up a group. My normal attempt at success, is to begin with a clean barrel and shoot 5 rounds, then allow the barrel to cool before trying a test group. A clean barrel will often throw a "wild" shot. When shooting for record I will allow at least 5 minutes of cooling between shots. The bigger the powder charge the longer the cooling time.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
It was a drop---I tripped over it
Before we go too far with this---that "tusk" is fake ivory and real scrimshaw--which I enjoy.
The quality of the fake is exceptional---until you pick it up and look at the "cut" end, then you see that there is no connection to the real thing. That happens to be a good thing in the event I would have some do gooder peeking in the window.
I do have two real ivory tusks which are of questionable legality. Both are from Alaska, and previously belonged to walruses. They are also scrimshawed--both by the same man.
The main "problem" of bringing ivory from Alaska to the lower 48 happens when you drive and you have to go in and out of Canada---if they catch you it's now theirs
I brought one back on a plane and that was not an issue.
The biggest problem I ever had was with a bracelet I bought for my wife in Homer--it was made from a petrified mammoth tusk---which is legal but not easy to identify.
Last edited by Dave Grubb; 11-17-2019 at 02:39 PM.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
That ruger is I guess what you would call a chassis (chassis=stock)gun. There are lots of custom shops that build "stocks" like that made out of everything right up to titanium. The beauty is that its a just a matter of bolting up your favorite action and barrel to get an infinitely adjustable and customizable durable weapon (picture bench rest guys hanging weights on it, etc.). Back to the ruger; they apparently have a magic muzzle break but I don't see it in the pic.
I agree with Dave about group size increasing with more shots. I sorta snort at 3-shot groups. I do 4 shots because I get another group out of a box and I don't have the kind of time Dave does. Somewhere in my reloading cave I have some 10-shot groups out of that .222 about the size of a quarter. That particular rifle is a pleasure to shoot and it shoots like that all day long.
In my opinion, this moa performance depends far more on the shooter than most care to admit. Some days its harder than others. And my hand isn't as steady nor my eyes as sharp as they were. Give me enough time and a comfortable place to sit and I can shoot 'em in the eye though.
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
I never did much paper shooting with a rifle at distance. Most of my "distance" shots were at deer, and they wouldn't stand up long enough for me to take a second or third shot to see how tight of a group the gun and I could make. When I finally find a farm to buy, a range will be one of the first improvements. I plan to use it a lot. Maybe then I'll find out how tight I can make them with these tired old eyes of mine.
The best group of two that I remember was from a beat-up Texas prison surplus Remington 870 I bought for almost nothing. It had a short rifle barrel with standard rifle sights. I decided to see if I could hit a target at 75 yards with slugs. I only had two slugs with me - hence the group of two. I fired the first round and it took out the "X" in the center of the target. The second round cut the first hole in half. I was pretty damn thrilled at that!
The only way of discovering the limits of the possible is to venture a little way past them into the impossible - Arthur C. Clarke
As well you should beI was pretty damn thrilled at that!
I'm happy if I can "paper" at 100 yards with a slug gun and rifled barrel.
No---I will not take a shot at a deer at that range.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis