Charter Member
Yep, coal companies in Utah are in economic trouble. But, everyone else saw the writing on the wall and they are actively moving to non-coal power generation.
Have any of my friends here spent a Winter in Salt Lake City, Provo or Ogden? Seriously, the air often qualifies as the dirtiest in the nation. But, this year we're doing better, as storms have regularly blown out the dirty air. 'Course, that doesn't clean the air. It just sends it elsewhere.
Hunter
I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead
Charter Member
The uber resort for the rich, Amangiri, is right across the Utah border from Page Arizona. The reason the resort was put there, relatively in the middle of no-where, was to give rich visitors solitude and solace from rubbing shoulders with the rest of us. If I recall, I did a piece on Amangiri on this site before it opened.
I don't think it will surprise my friends here that the owners of Amangiri and their visitors do not support keeping the power plant in page operational.
https://www.aman.com/resorts/amangiri
Hunter
I don't care if it hurts. I want to have control. I want a perfect body. I want a perfect soul. - Creep by Radiohead
Registered Member
Coal is dead - so what and who cares why. That wasn't the question. Perhaps it was too nuanced. Shame....5 years from now you will all be wondering what happened.
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Registered Member
Page is dead. They are tearing out the canternary power for the train as we speak.
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Charter Member
I hope the lake survives....
Registered Member
Just ran across this article.. Coal is a problem in Mongolia.. who knew https://aje.io/z4cdq
Charter Member
A young mother, Ganchimeg, waits for the fever to let up in her one-year-old daughter's trembling body.
Does anybody have a clue as to how we got to where we are? We burned coal for 150? years. If we'd have sat in the cold dark corners waiting for light and heat do you think we'd be messing with solar and hydro and nuclear etc... It's called progress and democracy. I guess we need to start subsidising literally the world, it's the least we can do.
This is your mind on drugs!
Charter Member
Checked out the price for resort. I guess I don't fit in that group.
Fred
"Everyday I beat my own previous record for number of consecutive days I've
stayed alive."
'Take care of yourself, and each other.'
Registered Member
Yes I did. It has nothing to do with what I was talking about. I do note that there was zero discussion of why domestic producers find themselves exporting to stay alive. But no serious person can deny that in the case of coal, politics (or science if thats your thing) and not economics determined the outcome. Please try to explain to me how this isn't an example of our government picking winners and losers.Originally Posted by Dave Grubb
I like to trot out my resume in times like this. I have been in BIG BOY coal plants literally hundreds of times doing dozens of various (mostly pollution) retrofits. I know firsthand why those pollution controls were installed. I have also been on dozens of BIG BOY surface coal mines over 3 decades. I would have to look at my file of safety credentials to tell you exactly how many. I was considered an "experienced miner" under 30 CFR for many years, but happily not underground so I couldnt actually go inside the multi-million dollar portal we built for BHP. I know firsthand what killed coal because I personally profited from building the gallows.
I wonder what yours or the authors credentials are?
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Charter Member
Much of the export coal is metallurgical coal and the US has an abundant supply. It is used in coking plants as part of basic steel production.I do note that there was zero discussion of why domestic producers find themselves exporting to stay alive.
As for credentials---I'll humor you with an answer. I studied nuclear engineering (my degree is ME) in college and worked in and on multiple nuclear, coal and oil fired plants after graduation. I am very familiar with combined cycle gas plants---which are the the main nemesis of coal plants. You might want to do a little reading about them.
Not to be insulting, but you don't know what you don't know.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Registered Member
And just to show that Im not a total crank, here is a pitcher of a mine with a bonus airplane includedThis one is a molybdenum mine in Colorado, and the picture does not properly set the stage. The dozer is sitting at the very tippy top point of a peak which was the starting point for the drills that would start bringing the mountain down.
When the operator finally topped out with dozer, it was standing pretty much straight up, and then tipped forward onto the top. The operator said that when the dozer fell back to earth, "his azzhole slamming shut sounded like a clap of thunder".Take a close look at the upper right hand corner of the cab and you will see a fire bomber BELOW the dozer.
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Registered Member
Dude, I live in the San Juan basin. I've built peakers. What does cheap gas killing cheap coal have to do with the topic unless you agree that there will be an emerging class of victims from fracking.
If you like i can dust off all of my golly-gee-whiz demographic forecasts that predict a consequential shift in population and industry as a result of the development of our natural gas resources. That's the kind of stuff boards of big multinationals do and that international business schools study. Too bad you think I slept thru class.
I'm sure we can agree that cheap natural gas is what has propped up our economy for some time now (and will restore some of Americas manufacturing industry), and not political parties.
Last edited by CactusCurt; 02-17-2020 at 08:43 AM.
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Charter Member
There is no question that the price of NG has supported the use of combined cycle gas turbine generators---that is one of the major drivers pushing coal out.
I'll leave you with this thought: Along my way, I worked on a high pressure steam power plant (250,000 lb/hr per boiler, 1,000,000 lb/hr total for the plant) coal bed (traveling grate) with suspension bark burning over the coal bed at a major paper company, high pressure combined pulverized coal and bunker oil fueled boilers for power generation and process steam at a major tire plant. That does not make me an expert on making paper or building tires.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
Registered Member
But knowing what I do about you and your background, i would likely take your word over some intern working for Bloomie. I value first-hand experience over someone who has never owned a pair of steel-toed boots sitting behind a keyboard.
You have tried to change the subject 10 times in this thread without sharing your opinion on the topic. And I'm gathering up tax chit for my appointment, so understandably cranky. What else you want to argue about?
"Back after 5 years. I thought you had died.
don"
Splitting my time between the montane and the mesas
The woods are lovely, dark and deep.
But I have promises to keep,
And miles to go before I sleep,
And miles to go before I sleep.
Charter Member
I'm doing the same and taking advantage of the holiday.
"A pessimist sees the difficulty in every opportunity, an optimist sees the opportunity in every difficulty” ---Sir Winston Churchill
"Political extremism involves two prime ingredients: an excessively simple diagnosis of the world's ills, and a conviction that there are identifiable villains back of it all." ---John W. Gardner
“You can’t go back and change the beginning, but you can start where you are and change the ending.” ---C. S. Lewis
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